149738-did-f2p-kill-the-community
Content ---- ---- No it doesn't. I don't see any differences between before F2P and after F2P. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Your fatalism is not justified. Plus: It'd be good, instead of trolling, if you just go ahead pointing out what you've actually lost. Edited February 18, 2016 by Jeraldan | |} ---- Hell, the game has to move on increasing numbers. It'd happened either way. You can't just expect to stay as a social microsystem forever, if you try to survive increasing the numbers. And if those which have left WildStar aren't yet to come back, it's their decision. It's definitely not because the game went F2P. | |} ---- I thought the OP meant more behaviour than numbers? | |} ---- ---- ---- Not sure what that has to do with what I said? Please read the entire forum instead of just one post to get the concept of what has been discussed so far. The first response to the OP, being myself, I said "On EU jabbit things feel the same just more people. Maybe I am just not cynical enough to notice?". Someone mentioned numbers, and I responded with what you quoted. So again, not sure what that has to do with what I said? | |} ---- ---- There are quite a few on Entity. What server are you playing on? | |} ---- Okay, maybe you simply didn't understand what I was writing about. So, OP stated that if we haven't lost that much since the game went F2P. On my first reply, I've written, that his fatalism isn't justified, plus, that he should point out WHAT has been lost. It turns out, it's about the folks which have just left and / or possibly the change of in-game feeling. So, then I explained in context to your reply, that of course in relation to numbers currently increasing, it's quite obvious that the behavior of the entire community changes too, even though it's actually not really the case. So I fall back on what OP stated, which most probably was pointed towards players which left the game before. Yet, they did NOT leave the game because it went F2P. I think it's clear now, eh? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Same Here! | |} ---- Did F2P kill the community more than early game bugs, game difficulty, or the grindy aspects of WS? And without F2P, would there still be a community at all? Or a game? | |} ---- ---- I love this game. I love the raiding. But I will be honest with you. I have really no desire to level an alt and I am technically a raid logger now (my own assessment of myself, not someone else calling me that). Few reasons, biggest one being I have a 6 month old. So I don't troll the forums as often as I used to and when I'm not raiding, I'm usually playing something else. It's not that I'm doing that because I dislike the game, its merely because I don't have much to do (that I want to do rather). Yes, there are plenty of other things in the game I could do (Housing, alt character, pvp, etc) but I'm really just here for raiding at the moment. | |} ---- just curious how you are asking for help? in zone chat? with say? if you are not using the global chat channels that were made you will probably have a hard time. if you are using zone chat at lower levels, well there just are not many people at lower levels. for entity na it is /chjoin lfg (exile) and /chjoin entitylfm (dominion). this is where all the chatter is and where most questions get answered. I think your generalization is just that. i know plenty of people in game and on these forums that help people out all the time. but being able to find the sources of information can be difficult if you dont know where to look. to be fair this game has pretty bad resources out there for information. most are out of date or incomplete. forums do have a lot of information and asking a question via post here should help get you answers as well. back on topic. i have only noticed more activity since f2p launched. for me it has been positive for the community with lots of fresh faces. the community as you perceive it, is what you make it to be through your own actions. | |} ---- ---- Well thing is when you go f2p, you still kind of need content with it. World bosses, dailies, 4 dungeons and raids is obviously not enough since people, back with f2p launch were quitting the game all the time since the GA struggle was real, i mean roster boss and extremely bad play left and right. Shit like that kind of like,makes you quit. If the game had a healthy income of content, not just dailies, or world bosses, i mean, raids and dungeons, people would've stayed. We're all excited for arcterra, but really, a new zone is not exactly what the game needs right now. Now Redmoon is going to be a linear raid, not even like GA in which you had x89 on one side of the thing and kuralak at the very end of it, only to hope they are actually working on raids and dungeons, because by the looks of it they aren't, so, GG wildstar. | |} ---- ---- Do you actually mean community or do you mean population? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- i think some still prowl the forums to spit vitriol every now and then. | |} ---- Probably, but in game has been great, at least it feels much more social, active, and happy than the lead up to F2P was by far. | |} ---- I miss the people on here who have said from the beginning that "GAEM DED IN COUPEL MONTHS LAWL". | |} ---- ---- ---- Well, both I guess. The (comparatively high) difficulty led to a split between "casuals" and "elitists" in the community. People leaving, i.e. population declines, killed off, or at least crippled, parts of the community, e.g. PvP. And of course, without population you can't have a community, and without F2P I daresay, we'd have much less population, or not any at all if the game would have stuck to P2P and folded. | |} ---- ---- ---- The problem is guilds dont want to teach the players how to do the raiding or dungeons, so at the end if you guild wants someone fully vested, train and teach them. | |} ---- It isn't the guilds' progressing through GA jobs to prepare players for you to poach recruit. If you want to recruit people for your guild running Datascape, and you're having trouble finding people who are at Datascape, then put in the time to build some people up. | |} ---- this statement is not entirely true. i know plenty of guilds who take the time to help people get up to speed, but the people dont tend to stick around. post f2p brought in a lot of new faces, but mostly a revolving door of people. they stick around for a month or two, blast through some content with a guild. then they just disappear. this has been my experience. plus you may not be in the right guild. you want a leveling guild by the sounds of it, or possibly a ga progression guild. joining a ds progression guild will not work as well because they have surpassed that tier and there is little incentive to go back. as far as learning goes, you get what you put out. if you are actively putting groups together to learn new things then you will do fine. if you are going to wait for someone to come along and say "hey i want to teach you how to pve" its not happening. best bet is to queue up, then tell people you are learning. start out easy with vet stl or vet kv. master those then go on to the next one, rinse and repeat. learning is not a passive activity and you have to put as much effort into it as anything else. learn by doing. also if you dont know, watch what people are doing in the dungeons. this is a valuable tool. if you fail and learn something it is not a failure. just get back in there and try again. i failed many dungeon attempts getting to where i am, but it pays off in the long run. | |} ---- This is not true. If you join TCO we will run you through some dungeons and teach you the mechanics. Will give you some BoE DS gear to help you get up to speed in DS. We will partner with other DS guilds to do some GA runs to help you get raiding practice. We will bring you along on non-progression raid nights to get your SD unlock and farm some mini bosses. And it's a LOT of work for the team, so don't say we aren't doing it. I'm sure Ascent and other guilds are doing similar to us. The issue he's talking about is that there isn't really a pool of players in between "I haven't raided" and "I've been raiding for months". If you get a new player, you are going to be teaching the basics, and you are going to be doing it in the deep end. It's fine, but it's not the best situation for the game. | |} ---- FWIW, I've never seen ChemBoy try to pull people happy in their guilds away (and he very well could have, since he knows people in my guild and they are farther progressed than we are). He isn't talking about poaching here. | |} ---- Every MMO raiding scene has feeding guilds. They teach people and then other guilds poach them. If you are a feeding guild then the only way to stop the poaching is to progress. Some players are happy to be in a guild for the social aspect where as others want to progress. Those who want progress don't really care what guild they are in so they are happy to play leap frog on the lower tier guilds. As the power creep has become insane a lot of guilds have moved up from being a feeding guild and are pretty close to downing Avatus. So this has lead to a massive drop is recruiting for both ends of the spectrum. Also most new players that i have played with and have been brought into our raids have come and gone. I think we have 1 person from the f2p launch left in the raiding side of the guild and maybe 2 people who dont raid. The rest got the carry and left, Because why would they stay? The content is a long way off and most of us who are still here are just farming for a pink and the new players are at the end of the line when it comes to pink drops. | |} ---- The problem is people not sticking around. I've seen it enough now since F2P has hit. We've had applicants that simply dissapeared 2 days after making an application. We've had applicants that dissapeared 1 wek after being accepted We've had applicants that refused to raid because they couldn't get the mechanics right, even after having trained in dungeons We've had applicants that raided once and then dissapeared because numerous reasons. The problem is not guilds refusing to invest time. Heck we run dungeons daily to get people attuned; geared or some practise on mechanics. We raid twice a week in Genetic Archives; but every raid it becomes harder to just scrape people together. Nothing is binding people to this game anymore. With the subscription people at least had the illusion they had to hop online because of their sub running. Now? They jump from one F2P game to another; leaving as fast as they joined. I hope people at some point realize that this is killing off every single game, one at a time. And int he end; there's going to be nothing left. | |} ---- This is just a really long and convoluted way of blaming the players and not the game. Fact of the matter is this. The majority of the audience for F2P games is fickle, yes, maybe even unfairly so. However, if a F2P game is made well, the players will stick around. There are plenty of games right now, that are F2P and are thriving. (The most popular and populous online game right is now F2P fyi). The playerbase is not some kind of mindless hive of locusts that just consumes games and move on. They just don't have the patience to deal with bad games with incompetent dev teams that seem to excel at breaking more things than they fix with each successive update. | |} ---- ---- Are those games an MMO with content needing months to make or a MOBA with content that takes a few weeks? | |} ---- ---- I'm not going to deny that we are not as vested in training people as we used to be, but this is ultimately due to a rather high degree of burnout among our core guildies. Back last summer I would run 3-5 GA PUGs a week (several people in this thread participated). I did not mind training/teaching through GA. Nowadays my approach is to take a more hands-off approach to GA. It is much easier now to PUG a ga and get your gear quickly. No longer do we have that GA barrier where it is hard to get a run, so it is not as necessary as it used to be. That said, our guild does run a GA on friday. I am letting some of my officers handle that as doing ga for the 100th (literally) time is no longer something i have much interest in. In terms of other support, we do run dungeons with our new members. We also have a brain trust where people can ask questions about the game, their class, their runes, their spec, etc... anytime they want. So i feel if someone really wants to learn and raid, we give the opportunity to do so. If people want to play casually, they can do that. If they only want to do GA, they can do that. So while we aren't the intensive GA training ground we once were, people still have an opprotunity to learn. I would say also, a lot of teching occurs in datascape. I'd like to get 2 new people in each week for "farm" content, get someone to go 7/9 or 8/9, pick up some gear and learn the fights. I know some places players are judged on one day or even sometimes one hour of play. I am committed to NOT judge so quickly. So while there may be some guild like how you describe, i don't believe Ascent is this way. | |} ---- Ultimately - I believe people should be in a guild where they are most happy. I have certainly asked players who i play with often and enjoy to join in the past. Sometimes, they choose to join our guild because it's a better fit for them than their current guild. Sometimes, they prefer where they are and choose to not join. That is always their choice. Sometimes people have left our guild as well. Whether they were courted by someone else or if they left freely, I am never quite sure, but i can't judge for certain. What i would like is for people to be in guilds where the culture, the time, and the leadership is how they like it to be. is a great fit for some (and I really do love my team), but some players are very happy elsewhere and that's where they should stay. I don't necessarily consider this "poaching". I don't promise players the sun the moon and the stars and then not deliver. I just try to give our new recruits the opportunity to raid datascape when they have the time and interest to do so. | |} ----